tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post2749657122236767882..comments2024-03-28T01:12:48.673-07:00Comments on Mastering Media Blog: Metallica "Death Magnetic" - Stop The Loudness WarsIan Shepherdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00924989200562398660noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-66268789264116505402012-05-22T07:24:13.262-07:002012-05-22T07:24:13.262-07:00I have no problem with compression...especially in...I have no problem with compression...especially in heavy music...its necessary and beneficial to keep that in your face sound.....compression itself does not mean some thing is loud......my issue with death magnetic is blatent digital clipping ...I'm fine with the amount of compression on the record....what I'm not fine with is pushing a mix so hard into the digital zero brick wall there is audible crackling and clipping....some people may argue this is a form of compression...but the 2 are very different in .my mind<br /><br />Troy glessner<br />Spectre masteringMayor of Fairwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901711847833138539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-17436623779159626542012-05-22T05:41:40.786-07:002012-05-22T05:41:40.786-07:00Death Magnetic is such a great example of what peo...Death Magnetic is such a great example of what people opposed to heavy compression in music don't like. It's so aurally clear, I think that's valuable. On the other side, I like to point to Radiohead's Amnesiac as an album that is heavily compressed in a way that people still find musically appealing.<br /><br />The arguments about the loudness war are pretty one-sided (just scanning the comments here I see words like 'tragedy' and 'epidemic') but it's worth pointing out that sometimes loudness in a recording is a creative statement and it's worth taking that seriously. Sorry if this sounds like contrarianism or evangelizing... I just finished producing a podcast about the loudenss war that tries to present two sides to the story, so my head is spinning (if you're interested, you can hear it <a href="http://soundsfamiliarpodcast.tumblr.com/post/23259138848/download-itunes-rss-the-loudness-war-is" rel="nofollow">here</a>).Blake Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17771825237836964151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-2647998826886203342011-09-07T11:27:02.809-07:002011-09-07T11:27:02.809-07:00Of course, thanks for getting involved !
Here'...Of course, thanks for getting involved !<br /><br />Here's another link you might like to share:<br /><br /><a href="http://DynamicRangeDay.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://DynamicRangeDay.co.uk</a><br /><br />IanIan Shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00924989200562398660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-1348141448386225942011-09-07T07:56:09.835-07:002011-09-07T07:56:09.835-07:00I hope it's ok, but I referenced your blog in ...I hope it's ok, but I referenced your blog in mine. I had my little tirade on Death Magnetic!<br /><br />http://recordingstudiolife.wordpress.com<br /><br /><br />Thanks!1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-76208012196808984632010-09-13T11:07:35.041-07:002010-09-13T11:07:35.041-07:00I'm a recording engineer and an audiophile wit...I'm a recording engineer and an audiophile with a reference playback system and I can honestly say that this practice is RIDICULOUS!!(Imagine the all-caps being screamed and compressed to the gates of hell) I would never willingly be a part of it without at least voicing my disdain for the sonic result. Hell, why bother using high-end gear in the tracking process only to crush and distort into oblivion all that high resolution audio. I guess so we have a more robust sounding turd. I hate listening to what would have been truly great albums that have been ruined by this process. If kids want to hear it this way, then let them turn up the volume to distorting to taste.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17830278388944698984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-33280556039583584452010-01-04T00:10:19.847-08:002010-01-04T00:10:19.847-08:00Maybe Ted would have done better to say "No t...Maybe Ted would have done better to say "No thanks, I don't want my name on this one".Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00646278017547740626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-78855680575874145692008-10-20T01:22:00.000-07:002008-10-20T01:22:00.000-07:00brian STFU, u know nothing about sound quality. if...brian STFU, u know nothing about sound quality. if i want metal loud, i have a volumeknob to turn it up!<BR/>ur just a mindless sheep of the recordcompany, who still believes in the myth "louder is better".<BR/>if u enjoy loud, unlistenable, low quality music, be my guest. but let us who care about quality listen to good sounding records.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04382670041473081443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-2228268569120901962008-10-11T08:40:00.000-07:002008-10-11T08:40:00.000-07:00I think all you "loudness war" fanatics are just a...I think all you "loudness war" fanatics are just a bunch of cry-babies who can't handle good metal music. Heavy Metal is supposed to be loud and distorted. We're in the twenty-first century, music and the way people record it is changing. In my opinion, there's just too many so called "Metallica fans" who want to rebel against Metallica and the great music they're recording. Why don't you "children" get over it and get on with your childish lives. The world's not come to an end.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17694678480139429550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-1257550954177631442008-10-02T05:43:00.000-07:002008-10-02T05:43:00.000-07:00Lars has responded to this. See:http://blog.wired....Lars has responded to this. See:<BR/><BR/>http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/09/lars-ulrich-res.html<BR/><BR/>People should stop buying the album, and those that already did should ask for their money back. If they are finantially hit, maybe they'll realize that there is indeed an issue with the album, and that hiring the notorious (for producing junk) Rick Rubin was not a good idea after all. I also find it funny that Lars thinks he can assert sound quality by listening in his car. OTOH, the album does appear to have been mixed IN his car... :)J.Guilhermehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031693403527296879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-21847912159695865512008-10-01T20:23:00.000-07:002008-10-01T20:23:00.000-07:00Hi,I currently have a copy on half speed mastered ...Hi,<BR/>I currently have a copy on half speed mastered 180gram vinyl and recently went and bought a copy on CD to see what all the fuss was about. for sure the CD sounds about as bad as everyone is saying it does. On half speed mastered vinyl however it sounds not bad at all. Yes sure some might argue that there is way to much "warmth" in the dynamic processing and in some cases parts seem totally devoid of dynamic range what so ever due to brick wall limiting. But on the CD its really obvious but on vinyl is really is good 99% of the time. It is open sounding, a million times more than the CD and you do get a sence that maybe this was the "raw" sound they were after with St Anger. Sadly i dont think this album has been mixed or mastered with the adverage listener in mind. <BR/><BR/>(anyone seen my NS10's ????)<BR/><BR/> Its a shame really i think as not many people will be able to listen to this album with a system like mine and sadly and unusually in this case the reference system makes all the difference here. <BR/><BR/>In my Case i have a Rega P3 turntable with Dyna Vector 10X5 cartridge, Naim Super Nait, Naim Flat Cap PSU, Naim CDS3, Neat Motive 2's, Naim n-Sub.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-64834760680225164692008-10-01T14:40:00.000-07:002008-10-01T14:40:00.000-07:00Hi Roberto, and everybody who has posted - I'm sor...Hi Roberto, and everybody who has posted - I'm sorry I don't have time to reply individually to everyone, but I really appreciate your comments. Thanks !ianshepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05617388519502081272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-31835039519134287492008-10-01T13:30:00.000-07:002008-10-01T13:30:00.000-07:00Ian,Great post and examples.One of the biggest pro...Ian,<BR/><BR/>Great post and examples.<BR/><BR/>One of the biggest problems I had working with pop music was artists wanting their mixes to sound like it does on the radio.<BR/><BR/>I had to explain to them that radio stations do their own processing hence the louder sound. I also explained that anything they heard on the radio was not an accurate representation of what the original mix sounds like.<BR/><BR/>I have been fortunate enough to work with people who were able to understand this and not ruin their mixes by limiting them to death, but it's a constant battle.<BR/><BR/>I work mainly with classical music now and even in this field, I experience the effects of the loudness war. It's a daily battle but I refuse to give up!<BR/><BR/>RobertoUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08489901181269984995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-7797461763529462832008-09-26T06:20:00.000-07:002008-09-26T06:20:00.000-07:00Hi Everyone!First of all I`am very happy to read w...Hi Everyone!<BR/><BR/>First of all I`am very happy to read what Ian has written; there is absolutley no reason to make records so loud! All the common arguments to do so fall appart. Not the radio thing (read the truth: http://www.omniaaudio.com/tech/mastering.htm), nor the Ipod and itunes argument is big enough to destroy music! But I also agree: Loud records are cool, BUT it still has to sound good and microdynamics need to be preserved!!<BR/>Now something about Vinyl. Pop records nowadays are mostly a copy of the CD master. A friend of mine ownes al lot of britpop and other stuff and it has the same dynamic range as a CD! The only reaseon that makes it sound a littlebit more pleasing is that the pickup or needle does roll off the high frquencies, and the high-mids (where you can hear a lot of limiter artifacts) are nicer, because the dullness of the pickup sounds more natural to our ears. So my advice: listen to the record before you buy, if you can and dont buy Cds anymore (you`ll have more sex with your girlfriend)...<BR/><BR/>cheerz<BR/><BR/>adi Flück<BR/>Mastering and Vinylcutting engineer<BR/>www.centradubs.comUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07674987585174539689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-87908161430091516712008-09-25T10:07:00.000-07:002008-09-25T10:07:00.000-07:00http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122228767729272339...http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122228767729272339.html?mod=todays_us_nonsub_page_one<BR/><BR/><BR/>front page of wall street journal today<BR/><BR/>t.Mayor of Fairwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901711847833138539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-45964050167082174272008-09-22T08:42:00.000-07:002008-09-22T08:42:00.000-07:00Hm, I think it's time we all took a deep breath......Hm, I think it's time we all took a deep breath... if you guys start flaming each other I'll delete the posts, simple as that.<BR/><BR/>However, as far as the whole "audiophile" thing goes - I just posted this in the comments to the YouTube video, and it applies here as well:<BR/><BR/>***<BR/>You don't have to be an audiophile to hear this. The office staff here can hear it, my four-year-old can hear it - even the drummer in Simon's band can hear it ! :-D<BR/>***<BR/><BR/>The better the system, the more revealing of faults. Having said that, the distortion on this album is shocking, listened to even on iPod headphones. Draw your own conclusions...ianshepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05617388519502081272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-74606204241257113032008-09-22T08:28:00.000-07:002008-09-22T08:28:00.000-07:00I know this has been said before but I feel compel...I know this has been said before but I feel compelled to respond also.<BR/><BR/>["My reference system is 3 mortgage payments for a house on long island so I CAN MAKE A VALID ARGUMENT."]<BR/><BR/> Three mortgage payments on a house in Long Island could cost $5000 or less, which is nowhere near real Class A, "referance" level prices, which, in reality, would be closer to the price of the house itself. Any real audiophile would know this. More importantly, any real audiophile would know that the validity of one's subjective, musical "argument" does not rest solely on the cost of their high-end system. System cost alone would add little to nothing to the validity of one's argument. An audiophile will be able to tell the difference between a good and a bad recording on most any system, regardless of cost because, as is commonly acknowledged, simply owning an expensive system does not an audiophile make. The true audiophile holds more important their listening skills and trained ear. Without these highly developed skills one cannot fully appreciate the sonic benefits of a "referance" level system. More importantly, without a trained ear, one would have no hope of making wise purchasing decisions based on careful system matching and listening tests. <BR/>Actually, a crappy recording will sound worse on an expensive system so, as an "audiophile," your "referance system" should have revealed the mixing and mastering flaws on Death Magnetic in all their acoustically painful detail.<BR/><BR/>["And I have been following Ted Jensen, George Marino and Bob Ludwig’s work since early 80’s, I am 33 year old Audiophile and what I say matters.<BR/>"]<BR/><BR/>So you were about 8 years old when you started following their careers? Is that right? And you think, because you are a 33 year old audiophile, what you say matters? I'll tell you what, I think YOU ARE A LIAR. I don't think you have an expensive "referance system." Any 33 year old who has earned and saved enough money to own a true Class A referance system would have better grammar than you. No true audiophile would make ridiculous statements such as, "what I say matters," backed up by even more ridiculous qualifiers such as "I am 33 audiophile."[sic] I doubt a real 33 year old would say something that immature. Finally, no audiophile would find Death Magnetic to be the "best sounding, best recorded album" they have heard in recent times. PATHETIC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-44859752263496804552008-09-21T21:16:00.000-07:002008-09-21T21:16:00.000-07:00"First I would like to say this. Death Magnetic is...<I> "First I would like to say this. Death Magnetic is the best album, best produced album and best sounding album I have heard in recent times. (Actually I loved St Anger) I believe that 75% of this album was recorded with all members playing at the same time, hence all in one room together, take after take after take, with Rick in the control room dictating the engineers what to do. What you are hearing the lost energy of the real Metallica. James got rid of the character voice that Bob Rock brought out of him to bring them commercial " </I><BR/><BR/><BR/>rick rubin....is that you anonymously posting!?! i knew if we yelled loud enough you would hear our calls!...has your beard grown around your ears? muffeling the clipping sounds?<BR/><BR/>please stop the madness..because our ears are bleeding.<BR/><BR/>tMayor of Fairwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06901711847833138539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-64791744307130516552008-09-21T15:52:00.000-07:002008-09-21T15:52:00.000-07:00@ummagumma69 - I haven't heard the vinyl, but appa...@ummagumma69 - I haven't heard the vinyl, but apparently it is also clipped:<BR/><BR/>http://death_magnetic_vinyl_clipping.easyurl.netianshepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05617388519502081272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-82737184198645486662008-09-21T15:27:00.000-07:002008-09-21T15:27:00.000-07:00@ummagumma69 - It doesn't matter how expensive you...@ummagumma69 - It doesn't matter how expensive your system is if your ear sucks.<BR/><BR/>Even if your ear doesn't suck, this entire argument is subjective and many, if not most, think the album sounds like crap.<BR/><BR/>I have a hard time giving you any credence as an audiophile (especially one who claims to have been listening since the 80's) if you have no appreciation for dynamic range. Dynamics are a HUGE part of what makes music music. If everything is simply loud, clipped and distorted, loud no longer has any impact, be it in the drums, the guitars or the vocals.<BR/><BR/>Go back and listen to Justice, it's probably their best album from a technical perspective, but the songs also have a dynamic range. One, for example, starts out slow and mellow before getting into a louder, hard hitting ending. If the beginning of that song were just as loud as the ending, the ending would carry no punch at all and people's ears would be tired about 2 min into the song.<BR/><BR/>I like the CD as far as the songs themselves are concerned - I do, however, prefer to listen to the CD I burned from the GH flacs that someone created vs. the $10 coaster of a CD I purchased at best buy.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03392016763710770420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-11895944655598084022008-09-21T15:26:00.000-07:002008-09-21T15:26:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03392016763710770420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-28719130582143705002008-09-21T07:34:00.000-07:002008-09-21T07:34:00.000-07:00This is the same problem I have with Celtic Frost'...This is the same problem I have with Celtic Frost's "Monotheist." after a while it's just punishing to listen to.<BR/><BR/>Loud is fine, but it's getting insane!Richcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18386111193613812083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-88761631032180599352008-09-19T17:23:00.000-07:002008-09-19T17:23:00.000-07:00Thanks for posting. So when you listen the audio o...Thanks for posting. So when you listen the audio on the video I link to here:<BR/><BR/>http://mastering-media.blogspot.com/2008/09/metallica-death-magnetic-comparison.html<BR/><BR/>the CD sounds better to you, is that right ?<BR/><BR/>I think *all* the things you like about the CD are there in the less distorted version too - but you can hear them better.ianshepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05617388519502081272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-11024286415656417172008-09-19T17:00:00.000-07:002008-09-19T17:00:00.000-07:00First I would like to say this. Death Magnetic is...First I would like to say this. Death Magnetic is the best album, best produced album and best sounding album I have heard in recent times. (Actually I loved St Anger) I believe that 75% of this album was recorded with all members playing at the same time, hence all in one room together, take after take after take, with Rick in the control room dictating the engineers what to do. What you are hearing the lost energy of the real Metallica. James got rid of the character voice that Bob Rock brought out of him to bring them commercial and Rick brought back the soul inside the Masters of ALL Puppets.<BR/><BR><BR/>Oh and I personally could care less about Guitar Hero if that’s your primary listening environment then that is an all together different issue.<BR/><BR><BR/>Now CD vs. Vinyl, well the CD is HOT no don’t about it, but the Vinyl is so HOT I sweat every time I listen to it. Death Magnetic has the same feel and sound as Led Zeppelin II. Where everything feels like its going to explode.<BR/><BR><BR/>Too all involved with this recording my hat is off to ya, great job. And for everyone else if you want Metallica to sound like Nickelback (prefect production let their fake) then don’t listen to Metallica.<BR/><BR><BR/>My reference system is 3 mortgage payments for a house on long island so I CAN MAKE A VALID ARGUMENT. And I have been following Ted Jensen, George Marino and Bob Ludwig’s work since early 80’s, I am 33 year old Audiophile and what I say matters.<BR/><BR><BR/>Thanks feel free to email me with hate mail. I would also like to know if I am right about recording process because if you sit and listen to can hear the energy of the room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-52482746142324969612008-09-19T08:36:00.000-07:002008-09-19T08:36:00.000-07:00Запись просто пздец! Russia requests REMASTERING!Запись просто пздец! Russia requests REMASTERING!Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02693686919590067481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8381002847466408353.post-11336705623283055842008-09-18T21:44:00.000-07:002008-09-18T21:44:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com